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Who are Jake and Neytiri’s kids in ‘Avatar: The Way of Water?’
This article contains spoilers for Avatar: The Way of Water.
Avatar: The Way of Water provided a worthy continuation to the world of Pandora, introduced meticulously by James Cameron 14 years prior. While the essence of the series’ two heroes, Jake and Neytiri, carried over from one movie to the other, there were a few new elements to their clan that brought their own special kind of magic to the story.
Viewers had last seen the couple happily mated for life at the end of Avatar after stopping the Resources Development Administration led by Colonel Quaritch from violently occupying Pandora. Beyond the introduction of the Metkayina, an aquatic Na’vi clan who live in Pandora’s reefs, the biggest change to the couple’s lives in The Way of Water is that they now had a few mini-mes running around with them.
Jake Sully and Neytiri’s kids, biological and adopted
In the years between the 2009 movie and its 2022 sequel, Jake and Neytiri added five members to their family, some biological children, and some they adopted. Speaking to Empire, director James Cameron explained why it was important to give his protagonists a family in this second installment.
“I look around – I don’t want to specifically say the Marvel Universe, or the DC Universe – at current fantasy and science-fiction and all these heroes seem unbound in the mire of relationships, the stuff that pulls you down and clips your wings, that stops you running around and risking your life. I thought, ‘What if I take these incredible characters of Jake and Neytiri and give them a family?’ That gives them feet of clay right there.”
Miles “Spider” Socorro
Spider, whose nickname comes from his natural ability to climb, is a human teenager who is like a brother to the Sully children. He was born in Hell’s Gate, the base for all human colonial operations, and is 16 at the start of The Way of Water. Spider’s mom, Paz Socorro, died in the final battle in Avatar, and his dad, the villain of both films Colonel Quaritch, was killed by Neytiri. Orphaned, and too small to be sent back to Earth, Spider was taken in by humans Nash and Mary McCosker, but always preferred to be with the Na’vi in Pandora, particularly Jake and Neytiri’s children.
They grew up together and became like siblings, but Neytiri always found it difficult to separate Spider from the rest of the human species, for which she naturally held contempt, due to the trauma from past hostilities. The matriarch’s anxieties are somewhat confirmed when Colonel Quaritch is essentially brought back to life through a Recombinant (human/Na’vi hybrid soldier), who has been implanted with the man’s memories and personality traits.
Spider is played by Jack Champion, best known for his role in 2018’s The Night Sitter.
Related: Avatar: The Way of Water Cast on The Escapist
Kiri
Kiri is Jake and Neytiri’s adopted 14-year-old daughter. Although we know Kiri is the daughter of Dr. Grace Augustine’s avatar, little is known yet about her origins, namely who her father is. In The Way of Water, she is portrayed as having a strong connection with Eywa, Avatar‘s version of Mother Nature, as she’s able to feel and communicate with her to a degree. In the film, Kiri tells her adoptive father that she “feels her,” and can “hear her heartbeat.” As Grace died at the Tree of Souls, meeting Eywa in the process, fans have speculated that Kiri could either be directly related to the powerful entity or a reincarnation of Sigourney Weaver’s character.
Like her siblings, Kiri is also part avatar, which is why she has eyebrows and five fingers (the real Na’vi only have four). She and Spider share a special bond based on their family history and separation from their biological parents, but Kiri is also very close with her baby sister Tuk. She is played by Avatar returnee Sigourney Weaver, who played Grace in the first movie.
Neteyam, Lo’ak, and Tuktirey
Neteyam, Lo’ak, and Tuktirey are Jake and Neytiri’s biological children. Neteyam is their oldest son, Lo’ak is the younger brother, and Tuktirey is the couple’s youngest daughter.
Neteyam is 15 in The Way of Water, and as Jake and Neytiri’s oldest son, he is next in line to lead the Omaticaya. Because of Neteyam’s dutiful personality, which inspires trust and a level of preference in his parents, Lo’ak is incredibly jealous of him, and the two often clash. He’s played by British actor Jamie Flatters.
14-year-old Lo’ak is a stand-out character in The Way of Water. He’s the rebellious son, always getting scolded by his parents, and even putting his siblings in danger thanks to his hunger for adventure. He’s also the only of Jake and Neytiri’s biological children with eyebrows and five fingers, like avatars. As a result, he feels misunderstood and singled out, leading in him to act out.
After moving to Awa’atlu, Lo’ak is rescued by a tulkun, a sentient whale-like creature from Pandora, named Payakan. The two bond, but the leader of the Metkayina clan, Tonowari, tells Lo’ak that Payakan has been exiled from his pack for murdering someone, something which is not allowed among its species. He is played by Britain Dalton, best known for playing a young Nathan Drake in the video game Uncharted 4: A Thief’s End.
As for Tuktirey, she 7 years-old in The Way of Water, and is referred to by her nickname “Tuk”. She is the baby of the family, always eager to go on adventures with her siblings, and curious about the world around her. She is played by The Garcias‘ Trinity Bliss.
The Sully family’s relationship, explained
Despite differences in background and personality, the Sully children are close, as they play and swim together, stick up for each other, and try to help one another when needed. In The Way of Water, they are very much set up as the next generation of Avatar, and the center characters of the three future films James Cameron has planned.
Sam Worthington, who plays Jake, spoke to Empire about how his character’s military background clashes with Neytiri’s pacifist nature, as they decide how to raise their children.
“Jake comes from the point of view of being a Marine and leans into that way of thinking because that’s what was ingrained in him about surviving. Pacifism and militarism are definitely going to come clashing.”
The addition of Jake and Neytiri’s children into the world of Avatar instantly sprouts a number of exciting possibilities for the future of the franchise.
Avatar: The Way of Water is available to rent, buy, or watch now on Disney Plus and Max.
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All 20 rumored ‘Deadpool 3’ cameos, ranked from highly plausible to MCU-shaking insanity

While Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness might not exactly have lived up to its title, and Avengers: Secret Wars is so far away at this point to be little but an abstract promise, Marvel is working on what all the signs are pointing to be a cameo-filled, multiverse-destroying extravaganza of fan-service that you know is going to be the wildest ride MCU fans have had in a cinema since Spider-Man: No Way Home. And it’s name is Deadpool 3.
At the time of writing, a whopping total of 20 familiar faces have been rumored in some shape or form to be featured in Ryan Reynolds’ long-awaited MCU debut, which also memorably brings back Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. These claimed cameos vary wildly from legacy X-Men stars to old pals of Reynolds’ to bonafide superstars. You might be inclined to disbelieve all of them, but even director Shawn Levy has admitted that at least some of the reported guest stars are bang on the money.
The only officially announced cameo at this point is Jennifer Garner’s Elektra, so that just goes to show how literally anything can happen with this movie. With that in mind, here’s every supposed Deadpool 3 cameo, ranked from those that are all but confirmed to those that are so crazy they might just work.
20. Patrick Stewart as Professor X
A cameo from the X-Men leader with the big brain is surely a no-brainer, yes? Sir Patrick Stewart’s already broken his MCU cherry with Doctor Strange 2 and, as an 83-year-old veteran of the Marvel and Star Trek universes who is so done keeping secrets, he’s also kind of admitted he’s in Deadpool 3 anyway.
19. Ian McKellen as Magneto
Sir Pat Stew is so done with keeping secrets, in fact, that he’s also strongly intimated that his off-screen bestie/on-screen frenemy Ian McKellen could be returning alongside him in Deadpool 3. McKellen has never been shy about reprising his own franchise roles, so this one feels like another cert.
18. Halle Berry as Storm
There are different ways of spoiling your own surprise Marvel cameos. You can get candid about it in an interview or you can really try your best to give Kevin Feige a coronary by sharing a stylish selfie on social media in which you rock a very familiar hairstyle. That’s the route Halle Berry took anyway.
17. Rebecca Romijn as Mystique
Rebecca Romijn returning as Mystique? Sure, why not? She already came back for a cameo in X-Men: First Class. Plus, blue-ing her up is probably a lot easier these days as it’d no doubt all be done with CGI. If DP3 can recreate Erik and Raven’s “being bitchy in the back of the school bus” routine from X2 I’ll be eternally grateful.
16. James Marsden as Cyclops
If any of Fox’s OG X-Men needs another crack at the whip it’s James Marsden’s perfectly cast, totally underused Scott Summers. Marsden is such a talented and funny actor that you know he’d make the most of getting to give Cyclops some personality over than his nth take on a cuckolded spouse.
15. Famke Janssen as Jean Grey
After Dark Phoenix was, well, Dark Phoenix, the entire X-Men community collectively agreed they didn’t want more Jean Grey on our screens for another decade at least, but I think we can make an exception for Famke Janssen’s OG Jean. Sorry, Sophie Turner.
14. Owen Wilson as Mobius
Deadpool 3 set pics have confirmed the Time Variance Authority will have some presence in the movie, so it only adds up that the TVA’s poster boy Mobius M. Mobius will drop by to chase down Wade Wilson. It’s just bizarre that it’s taken Ryan Reynolds and Owen Wilson this long to share the big screen.
13. Tara Strong as Miss Minutes
If Mobius is the TVA’s poster boy, then Miss Minutes is the organization’s mascot, so Tara Strong’s Texan-accented cartoon clock is surely set to pop up in Deadpool 3 somewhere. We know that she works directly with Kang, thanks to the Loki season 1 finale, so her inclusion may even tease the Conqueror’s own involvement.
12. Walker Scobell as Kidpool
Walker Scobell being in this movie would hardly be surprising, as Deadpool 3 is practically an Adam Project family reunion at this point. The teen actor turning up as Kidpool would be a little out of left field, though, as no other Deadpool variants have been rumored at this stage but, hey, this is what Reynolds himself has hinted at.
11. Brian Cox as General Stryker
Brian Cox returning as General Stryker after over 20 years feels infinitely bizarre and unlikely at first glance until you consider the fact that bringing him on board for a cameo would allow Deadpool to drop a Succession reference. There’s no way Reynolds will be able to resist a “Logan vs. Logan Roy” gag.
10. Dafne Keen as X-23
If Marvel was smart they wouldn’t just bring Dafne Keen (who first played Laura in Logan) back as Logan’s clone daughter X-23 for a mere cameo, but sign her up for a multi-movie deal now and make her the new Wolverine in the MCU. You can have that advice for free, Kevin, but next time I want 10%.
9. Channing Tatum as Gambit
Channing Tatum cameod in Free Guy, so the idea of him reuniting with Reynolds and Levy in Deadpool 3 is surely too delicious to pass up. Plus, this guy has been desperate to play Gambit for so long that he’s kind of earned it. After all this time, though, his Cajun accent had better be up to snuff.
8. Lewis Tan as Shatterstar
I’d love to be a fly on the wall of Marvel HQ when this cameo came up. “Forget Jackman and the rest of the beloved franchise veterans,” one exec must have said. “What about the dude from Mortal Kombat who turned up as a red-headed alien for two minutes in Deadpool 2?” It truly is the House of Ideas.
7. Ben Affleck as Daredevil
George Clooney returning as Batman was something we never thought we’d see, but Ben Affleck back as Daredevil?! Hey, Affleck’s life has been resetting to how it was 20 years ago lately, what with him getting back together with J-Lo. If this cameo happens, presumably we can next expect Gigli 2.
6. Tom Hiddleston as Loki
Tired: Deadpool should team up with Spider-Man. Wired: Deadpool should make some mischief with Loki. As Stan Lee would say, ’nuff said.
5. Elizabeth Olsen as Scarlet Witch
Scarlet Witch returning from the dead, after a dark and villainous arc in which she lost her husband and children and attempted to murder an adolescent, for a quick cameo in which she trades quips with Deadpool? Yeah, OK, let’s do it.
4. Julian McMahon as Doctor Doom
Yes, as it stands no one else from the original Fantastic Four movies is directly linked to DP3, apart from Julian McMahon’s Doctor Doom. It comes to something when the guy from Charmed remains the definitive cinematic incarnation of Doom after 60 years.
3. Taron Egerton as Wolverine
John Krasinski getting cast as Reed Richards really started something, huh? Now, any popular fan cast could come true, thanks to the wonderful cameo-creating powers of the multiverse. Taron Egerton as Wolverine full-time? Not gonna happen. As Wolverine for three seconds? Maybe.
2. Daniel Radcliffe as Wolverine (?)
To be clear, Daniel Radcliffe is only rumored to have been cast in a “secret role” in Deadpool 3, but with the entire internet wanting him as Wolverine (especially after his recent body transformation) who else would he be playing? Glob Herman? Actually, wait, now I want to see that.
1. Taylor Swift as Dazzler
If this was any other movie we were talking about, there’s no way this would be real. But Deadpool 3? You could tell me the film ends with the X-Men coming together to sing “Shake It Off” like Kermit and friends crooning “Rainbow Connection” in The Muppet Movie and I’d half-believe you.
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Exclusive interview: Writer/director Tim Brown talks ‘The Retirement Plan’ and collaborating with Nicolas Cage

The prospect of Nicolas Cage playing a retired, washed-up, sun-kissed, and booze-soaked assassin is enough to pique anybody’s interest, which is just as well when writer and director Tim Brown’s The Retirement Plan is on the cusp of releasing in theaters.
The star-studded action comedy also features Ron Perlman, Jackie Earle Haley, Ernie Hudson, and Ashley Benson to name but a few recognizable faces, with Cage’s veteran operative Matt forced to dust off his specific set of skills when his granddaughter shows up announced at his Cayman Islands retreat when her mother becomes caught in the midst of a criminal enterprise that threatens all of their lives.
An old school throwback with just as many one-liners being dropped as there are bodies, The Retirement Plan will appeal to Cage fanatics and genre junkies alike. Ahead of its release in select cinemas tomorrow, We Got This Covered had the chance to speak to Brown about his latest project.
During our chat, we cover his lifelong love of action, collaborating with Cage, marshaling the on-set carnage of shootouts and fistfights, his extensive back catalogue of canine-themed family films, and more which you can check out below.
It’s been a while since you shot, so how does it feel both personally and professionally knowing The Retirement Plan is finally on the cusp of release?
Tim Brown: That’s a great question. Really great question. A little surreal, because, yeah, it’s been a couple of years. So you know, COVID and everything else has certainly delayed a bunch of stuff for many productions. But yeah, it’s been a while. So I’m pretty excited. I hope people enjoy it and they have fun watching it, at least. The intention was always, you know, give people the same feeling they get when they’re on a roller coaster. Not too much to think about, some ups and downs, and laughs, some thrills. So that was always the intention around producing it. But yeah, I’m excited.
There’s a playful, almost irreverent nature to a lot of the more comedic scenes and character dynamics, but then when the action sequences kick into high gear it gets pretty gnarly with blood and bullets flying all over the place, but was that a difficult balance to strike during either the writing, shooting, or post-production process, because it never comes across as jarring even when it happens in the space of the same scene?
Tim Brown: I think that I’ve always been drawn to comedy, in particular action comedy. I think that I like being a little bit unpredictable, if possible. But I think when I started out, it was definitely more of an actual straight-up action picture. And I had in the screenplay, a lot of comic moments written in there. And I know both Jackie Earle Haley and Nic Cage had said to me when they had read it, “I kept laughing out loud.” But they were asking me almost, “Is it okay that I’m laughing out loud, because it feels like I’m laughing in an inappropriate place?”
And I always thought that was really the intention out of the gate, was to sort of be a little bit unpredictable. Irreverent comedy is right up my alley. I like being funny. I like making fun of the action genre itself. There’s lines in there that some people might get, some people might not. But it’s really tongue in cheek, sort of. I grew up through 80s action films, and then later the 90s stuff changed a little bit, but that sort of cliched style of filmmaking, I wanted to make fun of a little bit and at the same time, embrace the genre itself. So it is definitely, “reverent” is a good word for it, I think.
There’s an underlying self-awareness to the movie that’s always lurking in the background, but it never gets too on-the-nose, pronounced or meta. Were you always intent on acknowledging that sort of irreverence throughout, because it definitively places the film in a heightened reality without getting too wink-wink about it?
Tim Brown: That’s good. Yeah, that’s the greatest compliment I could get. Because that was exactly my intention, was exactly that. And that’s really funny, that’s a perfect analysis of it.
It’s one of those movies where there’s a handful of characters that say “Well, we can’t kill this guy and he just keeps killing all of us,” which is a familiar setup that a lot of audience members will be more than familiar with, but was it always in the back of your mind to make a point of not falling into the traps that viewers might be expecting?
Tim Brown: Totally, I wanted to do things that were against genre, you know, not necessarily the hero couldn’t win in the end, but through the film, to have moments in time where what normally would happen at this point in time, I would flip it.
And as well as killing off characters and side stories that people might be frustrated that I had killed off at certain points in time. I always said the sign of a great series, and I think no one did it better than Game of Thrones is that you just, you know, by episode three or four, you just kill every main character in the whole show. And I think doing stuff like that is so jarring.
So I embrace that. I think that’s great. If the character really becomes likable, you would kill them off! And I think it just adds a little more spice to the to the story, I think. So I definitely had an intention of writing that way for sure. Yeah, you’re catching all the little nuances that not many people I don’t think are gonna even notice but that’s great. Yeah, I really appreciate that.
Shootouts and action sequences is relatively new territory for you as a director, but as a self-proclaimed action junkie, was that an arena you’d always wanted to dive into headfirst to cut loose and indulge your preferences on this sort of scale?
Tim Brown: Yeah, I think as a cinephile, as a young kid, I was exposed really lucky. My uncle was a booker at Warner. And he had a 35mm projector in his basement. So on Sundays, we would go to his house. And from the age of zero, I mean, I would have been an infant watching the Marx Brothers and Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton. And that evolved to Laurel and Hardy, and Abbott and Costello, and that evolved to Mel Brooks, and that evolved to Peter Sellers. And then I got into action sort of later in life.
But initially, my love of cinema probably came from comedy out of the gate, no question, it would be the biggest influence would have would have been the Marx Brothers for sure. And in particular, Harpo Marx, I thought there was so much power in the ability, not to say anything, but be absolutely hilarious. During the talkies. So I really embrace comedy. And then I think that’s why there’s so much moments in here where there is fun in an action scene, but to prepare to shoot action, I look a to the DP, because doing action films on a very small budget is a really difficult task.
It’s a high bar to try and be somewhat convincing, because the only rehearsal time we had, we had a crew and cameras rolling. So the rehearsal was the first take. So that’s not easy when you’re trying to do set pieces, where guys, multiple fighters, multiple deaths, people going over buildings, and things of that nature that we put in there. So we had to be really strategic, because you know, independent film is really directly related to how much time you have.
Another week of rehearsal, another week of shooting, that gives you the ability to really hone those sequences and prepare them before you even start shooting. So for us to figure it out on the fly, and to have guys like Nic Cage and Ron Perlman be so open with that, and cool with that, I mean, Nic would come in on his days off to help rehearse some stuff if we had to, but really, we didn’t have that ability. So to do action on a number, you really have to be kind of creative in the way you shoot it and work the camera, just because you just don’t have the time and the resources to spend a month shooting a sequence or a fight scene, you have three days.
So you have to figure out, really be prepared before you start the day on exactly where the camera’s gonna go, exactly what the action is, and how you’re going to execute it. Otherwise, you’re sort of dead from the beginning to try and keep up with the schedule. So that was a challenge. But I embraced it. And yeah, I’ve been a fan of every action film known to man from, from the beginning of time onward. So yeah, I’ve always loved action movies.
As one of the best and most unique actors in the business, the logline of “Nic Cage as a son and booze-soaked retired assassin” pretty much sells itself to a lot of people. But does a performer like that require much direction? Or is it more a case of “here are the words I’ve written, this is the way I want to shoot them,” and then there’s the creative collaboration between the two of you to get the best possible version of that?
Tim Brown: I think that working with Nic, the best word is “collaborative.” He is completely collaborative. And all that happens before we start shooting. And it’s really a team effort. I remember Clint Eastwood saying, giving direction to someone who’s asking questions about their character on Unforgiven. And he tried something and he said, “Is that okay If I do this?” and Clint said, “You’re in charge of that department of that character.”
And I liked the idea that you know, Nic Cage’s job was to be in charge of the Matt department. So he came to the table with a ton of ammunition and tools in his toolbox. He referenced a lot of films. He’s a total cinephile above my paygrade, for sure. And so he and I could communicate through past films, and really talk the same language. So once we honed in on the style of film we’re making and honed in on the character, he brings the weight of old films to the forefront. And in this instance, one of the films that he used was a Leslie Howard movie from I think the late 30s, called The Scarlet Pimpernel.
And if anyone doesn’t know that, I didn’t know it. So I watched it. And halfway through the film, I said, “What is he talking about? I don’t see the connection.” And then as I watched the film, I understood his theory that this character, the lead character in The Scarlet Pimpernel that Leslie Howard plays is sort of, we refer to the term peeling back the onion. Because on the surface, he’s a beach bum, and he’s a drunk. But when you peel the layer back, “Oh, he’s a little bit more than that.” And then you peel another layer back. And then you find out until the very end, when you all the layers have been peeled back, we reveal who Matt really is.
And that collaborative effort is done mostly in prep. And then through production, he may improvise a little something, but I refer to it as the “Nic Cage spice,” because it just adds a flavor to your dish that is hard to really put words to. But it makes it so unique, so special, and funny. And it’s very intentional. He’s quite brilliant at adding something so small, but you might not even think is relevant. But the moment he did it, you know, there was a line on the balcony with his daughter saying, “Who are you? I don’t even know who you are. Who are you? How are you doing these things?” And she says, “Are you an assassin? You you kill people.” And he had a reply to that, I can’t remember what I wrote.
But he said, “Instead of replying, what if I just like do ‘haha’,” and he sort of gives this sort of shrug, and he makes a sound. Well, to me, it’s the highlight of the movie. And it’s only that man really could have brought that nuance to that character. Other actors might have said the line and done it differently. But he took away the line and it got so much better. So during production, we would tweak, we would do things.
But regardless of any of that, if I didn’t like anything he was doing, he was 100 percent trusted my vision. So his line to me was, “I’ll give you what you want. Here’s what I want. Here’s what I think,” and we’d discuss. But that again, all done weeks and weeks before a camera rolls, so that when we’re on set, we already know exactly how Matt is going to be through the story.
Other than, like I say, those little little nuances that he might bring during production. But that’s all done in prep. And it’s a lot cheaper in prep to worry about, instead of telling 100 people to hold off when Nic and I try and discuss the situation, which we never had that incident because like I say, totally collaborative, and he trusts my vision, which is you couldn’t ask for a better partner as a director. For me, that was for sure.
Nic Cage and Ron Perlman have been friends for a while, but their characters don’t really overlap all that much during the movie, but were you ever tempted to put them in more scenes together to capitalize on that real life chemistry, or would that have come at the expense of the story?
Tim Brown: I think I had to separate the character of Bobo and the kidnapping of Sarah from Matt, because Matt’s whole objective is to get Sara back. So he had to do his own B-story, which was the story of of Bobo and Sarah, which was its own thing. And I think if Nic got involved in that, it would have clouded that, and that’s one of my favorite parts of the film is the story of Bobo and Sarah and their evolution together, where you think he’s going to kill this girl. And through time, things start to change. And the outcome of that might be different than what Bobo initially had thought, well, definitely different with Bobo thought.
But also, earlier you asked about Nic. The other thing is, I wrote a really detailed biography for Matt about five or six pages, where he was born, when he got married, how his life was, what tours he did, who were his friends, like, pretty much his whole life leading up to this point on the beach drunk. Whether or not Nic uses that in his bag of tricks, I have no idea. He said he appreciated it. And, more importantly, for me, I think it helped me understand that character even better as a writer.
So when I would write the screenplay, having that biography, knowing that Matt, if he was abused by his family, or he was adopted, or kicked out of a foster home, or whatever his life was, that helped me make Matt’s decision later on when he comes across something, like “Well, he wouldn’t react like that because he was raised like this.” So that helped guide me a little bit, so that might have helped the character of Matt, and certainly working with Nic a little bit through that, but no, I wasn’t tempted.
I wanted to stay true to the story and they worked well together, that’s for sure. They certainly got along very well when they were on set, but yeah, you’re right. It was only a handful of days that I think, maybe two days, they were there together during shooting, which was the the really the opening beach scene there.
You’ve taken what could be called an unorthodox approach to getting into directing, having come up through the business side of things and been a president, CEO, VP, and sales executive at various points, but was stepping behind the camera eventually always a long-term goal of yours?
Tim Brown: I think it was 1992 when I started working for a company in Toronto, which was, I would sell VHS tapes to video stores door-to-door. And, you know, we have 12/15 new titles a month. And a guy who’s still in the business, Noah Siegel, was the first guy to sort of hire me in this business. And I said, “I really want to be a director.” And he said, “Well, why don’t you come here, understand the business of film. And then you could figure your way out to getting behind the director’s chair through that process, instead of getting a job on set or working your way through that way?”
So I think my first job on set was was director, that was the first time I’d really been on a set. And that was with The Cradle with Lukas Haas. And that was in 2006. So the route, it took me about 15 years to get behind that. I don’t know if it would have been any quicker if I went straight to film school. But I decided to do that route. So I really understand the business side of film pretty well, I’ve sold and produced about 28 films, I ran an international sales company.
So I had a good understanding of how to value an action picture and what that value is in Eastern Europe, what it is in Japan, and what it is in Australia, and how those revenues break down. What a theatrical release means, how much it costs, and ancillary markets followed up in the United States, be it studio, mini-major or an independent. So I know all those relationships, I know all those people. And so being able to understand that is a little different than most directors who can sort of talk about the revenue I expect to earn on the VOD platform, you know, through a two-month stretch in the United States. I can tell you those numbers.
And I also think a lot of distributors might be a bit refreshed, because I’m also not to the point where I’m, “Why isn’t my film being released on 3000 prints. Why is this not this?” And, well, I know, the budget, I know, the cast level, and I sort of know where it fits in a certain slot for the most part. I know it’s not Mission: Impossible, it’s not Barbie, and Oppenheimer. And so it falls into a category in the business sense of where the revenue is earned for the movie. And that I have an innate understanding of, I don’t think it changes how I direct the movie, all I’m trying to do is make it entertaining for people. If they laugh, if they get excited by the action, if they’re shocked by something, I’m just trying to evoke those emotions.
So I don’t know how much my business sense came into play on set, but I remember Nic talking about having a release at Neon for the movie Pig. And I started talking about the company Neon, and the owner of that company, and how I knew him from New York back in the day, blah, blah, blah. And he’s like, “Well, how do you know these people?” And I said, “Well, I came from a different world.” So it was a pretty funny conversation to have with him.
But yeah, it’s was one route, I wouldn’t recommend it, probably. I think if I was ever recommending other people to direct, I would just start shooting immediately. I don’t regret anything I’ve done in my past, that’s for sure. But I’ve had a great time getting to this point. And very, very, very, extremely lucky to say the least, that I was able to do this film with that cast, regardless of through the business, or through the creative process to get here.
Presumably, having that experience on the other side of things gives you an insight into how to build and create a feature in a way that not a lot of other filmmakers have, but does it have a drastic bearing on your process or have you been able to separate the businessman from the director?
Tim Brown: Well, I’ve directed five features. And I think that at the end of the day, every single time I’ve sort of come up with the idea, I’ve been able to get it financed to work with the financiers and then get it produced. No one’s hiring me, so maybe someone will hire me after this, who knows? But right now, I had to do these things to get myself to hire myself as a director.
Because I didn’t think anyone’s going to give me the opportunity. So I’m continuing to do that. I just continue to create the concepts and ideas, and then I try and package as best as I possibly can based on what I think a good pitch is to a studio or mini-major or streamer for that matter – whoever I’m talking to – to try and sell something to convince them that this has value in the marketplace based on budget, based on execution. And ideally I’d find a way to finance the movie, and then I just make another one.
I don’t have an agent, I’m not a member of anything, so basically I’m simply a guy trying to get shows created and content created. So that path continues. Maybe one day I’ll have someone do that job for me. But right now I’m sort of forced into the position. Directing is my ultimate, the ultimate dream. We’re just day to day. That’s all I’m doing.
You made your feature debut on The Cradle and then followed it up with Devil in the Dark, which are both supernaturally-tinged horror/thrillers, but Buckley’s Chance was something completely different genre-wise, and the same can be said of The Retirement Plan, so are you always looking to take on a new challenge when you line up your next movie, or is it more a case of the material speaking to who and where you are at the time you read it?
Tim Brown: Yeah, the latter I’m I’m currently my next project is A Shed, which is a drama that takes place in England about a retired Dickens professor who befriends a young Black man he finds living in his shed. So it’s a very heavy drama about equality in the world and amongst people, and it has a much bigger subtext. It is a more complex story, like nothing I’ve ever done before.
Whether I try and challenge myself from going to watercolor to oil base to photography, I don’t know if I’m doing that consciously. But I have bounced around a couple of genres. I’ve produced a lot of family movies. So I understand the family genre pretty well. That’s why, and Buckley’s Chance was was came from that, and a boy and a grandfather and a dog story was always a good, you know, an Old Yeller-esque type thing, which was for me, the old Walt Disney Sunday night movies of the week.
So it was an homage to that. And then my future one is is a drama that has no base other than I worked with Bill Nighy on Buckley’s Chance, and he reminded me of a Dickens professor. So I started writing this for him. And so that was spawned as a project for Bill, and the character came from him. Anything else that happened just sort of popped into my head some way somehow, and I wrote it down quickly before I forgot about it, or that that creative energy left me
Looking through your credits, and there’s a lot of dog-related stuff in there. You directed Treasure Hounds and produced Vampire Dog, Step Dogs, Bark Ranger, and Pups United as well. That seems like a really niche thing to get into, so how did you end up working on so many canine capers?
Tim Brown: For six years I worked for a guy named Robert Vince, who I would still argue is one of the most successful producers in Canada. Robert made the Air Bud movie, all the following. I mean, there’s probably been 20 sequels these work with Disney, so I ran international for a few years for him, and so I would go to market selling territory by territory, these movies.
And they were very, they hit a specific genre. And the certain customers globally that embraced it, they did really well. France, for instance, Poland, Australia did well with them, England did well with them, these sort of talking dog comic movies, all tongue in cheek stuff. And then so when I left that company, I started my own sales agency. That’s when I started producing, because I basically knew the customer base and said, “Well, why don’t we just come up with their own idea?” And I said, “All right, how about I have a dog that’s a vampire, but it’s a family fun movie, he jello instead of blood?”
And then we just go from there. And we sort of made a fun, fun little story about it. And I was able to reverse engineer basically the story in the creative, and then take the financing that I needed, and then go back and say, if you will, “Poland can give me this, and UK can give me that.” It’s not an easiest way to finance a film, it basically means you have to finance… I think we financed 22 foreign sales contracts, and a US distribution deal. Every single one with a different with a bank, with the same bank.
That’s a lot of documentation. If people aren’t aware of how that works, it’s literally, it’s probably 8000 or 9000 pages of documents and contracts. So it’s an insane amount, and not a good way to do it. It’s much easier to do one deal with someone, but that’s how I started, so I did that out of the fact that I knew how to put those packages together. And then we just… That’s why I produced the majority of them and then I ended up directing Treasure Hounds, because I think we couldn’t get a director. I can’t remember why, I’ll just direct it myself. So yeah, that’s from working for Keystone Entertainment, where I really learned how to work in the kids and family space. And again, Robert Vince was a great, great mentor for me, certainly in my producing world. Super smart guy, learned a ton from him.
Thalia Campbell also starred in Phantom Pups, Ron Perlman was in Fluke about a reincarnated dog, Nicolas Cage starred in Dog Eat Dog, and Ernie Hudson was in Battledogs, so maybe it was fate that you all ended up working on this project together.
Tim Brown: I had no clue that any of those, that’s all news to me! I had no idea that they did any of that stuff! Thalia went to shoot that was I think, I think, yeah, Anna McRoberts directed that movie with Thalia, and that was a Robert Vince production, and they shot on Vancouver Island up here. She did that right after she did this film I’m pretty sure. So that’s the only one that I knew of, that she had worked in the Keystone world. So no, I didn’t. I wasn’t aware that Nic did that. Or Ernie. Or anybody! That’s funny. Or Ron, I just talked to Ron the other day, so I had no idea he did that. That’s funny.
The Retirement Plan releases in select theaters tomorrow, Sept. 15, and you can find your nearest screening here.
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10 best Martin Scorsese movies, ranked

Although his movies are most closely associated with two themes – the culture of New York and the trappings of organized crime – Martin Scorsese’s career as a director now spans half a century and over 40 films of all types. Anyone wondering where to start with his voluminous filmography will therefore be spoiled for choice! Here are 10 of his very best.
10. The Departed
The film for which Scorsese finally received an Academy Award for Best Director pitted Leonardo DiCaprio and Matt Damon against one another as police informant and inside man in a Boston organized crime gang. Although it has been criticized for its occasionally on-the-nose direction – some critics scoffed at the final shot, which showed an actual rat traversing a window ledge in a not-so-subtle nod to DiCaprio’s character’s role – The Departed is solid Scorsese fare, with good turns from Martin Sheen, Ray Winstone, and Alec Baldwin, and Jack Nicholson’s Whitey Bulger-esque character proving as unpleasant (and violent) as any Mafia main man in Goodfellas.
9. After Hours
New York yuppiedom proved fertile ground for comedy in the 1980s, with the Crocodile Dundee franchise, Big, and others poking fun at the self-obsession and inflated sense of importance that went with the territory. Scorsese duly got in a few blows of his own with this tightly plotted 1985 farce, in which An American Werewolf in London star Griffin Dune’s beta male, Paul, has the worst of nights in New York, involving lost money, the death of an acquaintance, and being chased by punks. Scorsese did better work in the comedy genre, not least 1983’s The King of Comedy, but the laughs stand up today, and Rosanna Arquette is delightful as Paul’s would-be hookup.
8. The Wolf of Wall Street
This 2013 adaptation of New York stockbroker-turned-fraudster Jordan Belfort did huge box office, raking in a cool $400 million across all markets, making it by far Scorsese’s most successful movie at the time. Leonardo DiCaprio plays Belfort, but Matthew McConaughey packs just as heavy a punch as his mentor, a broker whose up-and-at-’em approach gives Belfort inspiration, and Jonah Hill makes hay as the originator of a “dump and dump” racket. The general debauchery of the lifestyle described in the memoir is at times painful to watch – it’s not so much the excesses, but the height from which Belfort has to fall that generate the unpleasantness – but discovering precisely how he fell from grace is worth the price of admission, and Margot Robbie is unmissable in her breakout role as his wife.
7. No Direction Home
He may have returned to the subject of Bob Dylan’s career in 2019’s Rolling Thunder Review, but Scorsese’s original 2005 documentary about Dylan’s early years as a 1960s Greenwich Village folk singer is the pick of the two, and arguably his finest documentary feature to date. Over three hours in length, Scorsese approaches his subject matter at a leisurely pace, and gathers a remarkable collection of interviewees: Joan Baez, Pete Seeger, and Allen Ginsburg all contributed with memories of Dylan from his emergence in 1961 to his much-criticized adoption of electric instruments in 1966. A must-see for fans of 60s music.
6. Raging Bull
Robert De Niro won his second Academy Award for his depiction of boxer Jake LaMotta in this 1980 classic. It is, perhaps, just as well that Scorsese opted to shoot in black and white; some of the fight scenes are nothing short of eviscerating, as a washed-up LaMotta absorbs punch after punch on the ropes, all the while protesting his ability to take punishment from his opponent, Sugar Ray Robinson. But Raging Bull’s more compelling drama can be found out of the ring, as LaMotta’s jealousy sees him accuse his wife Vickie (played here by Cathy Moriarty in an Academy Award-nominated performance) of infidelity. The film also saw De Niro’s first work onscreen with Joe Pesci, who plays LaMotta’s brother and manager Joey in only his second film appearance.
5. The King of Comedy
This 1983 film was one of Scorsese’s rare box office bombs, but amply repays a rewatch. Robert De Niro shows his range as a borderline delusional would-be comedian, Rupert Pupkin, who bumps into an actual famous comedian (Jerry Lewis) and becomes obsessed with him. De Niro has a ball as Pupkin, with his cheap suit and shiny shoes, hatches a preposterous plan to kidnap his quarry and achieve the only sort of fame it seems he is capable of – notoriety. As a critique of the American obsession with celebrity, The King of Comedy can hardly be bettered; in a curious inversion of roles, De Niro would go on to channel Lewis’ character opposite Joaquin Phoenix’s Pupkin-esque Arthur Fleck in 2019’s Joker.
4. Taxi Driver
The movie that brought Scorsese to the attention of the wider public is disturbing and compelling in equal measure, and earned its stars – Robert De Niro and a 14-year-old Jodie Foster – Academy Award nominations. The story traces the life of Travis Bickle (De Niro), a depressed loner who drives a taxi around the streets of New York at night, and predicts, as the famous line has it, that “someday a real rain will come and wash all the scum off the streets”. Weaving together a story including a slick political candidate, Foster’s child prostitute character Iris, and her pimp (played by a grimly manipulative Harvey Keitel), it also marks one of the first collaborations between Scorsese and Hollywood’s greatest composers. For Taxi Driver, Scorsese secured the services of Academy Award winner Bernard Herrmann, whose experimental jazz score perfectly complements Travis’s deteriorating mood as the film progresses. Herrmann never lived to see the finished product, or to receive the BAFTA he was awarded for his score, dying of a heart attack the day after the score was recorded.
3. Gangs of New York
There is more than a touch of artifice about this 2002 historical epic, but what it lacks in verisimilitude is more than made up for in stylishness. Scorsese tapped Leonardo DiCaprio for the pair’s first collaboration to play the part of Amsterdam, a young man living in 1850s New York whose father (Liam Neeson) was killed in a brutal gang riot by Bill “The Butcher” (Daniel Day Lewis) years previously. Unaware of Amsterdam’s true identity, Bill allows the young man to join his organization, leaving the viewer to wonder: will Amsterdam get revenge? Supported by a fabulous cast including Cameron Diaz as the pickpocket Jenny, Jim Broadbent as a corrupt Tammany Hall politician, and Brendan Gleeson as a would-be challenger to Bill’s position, Gangs of New York was lent additional poignancy by the lingering final shot of the World Trade Center over the modern-day New York skyline: a commentary on the nature of violence in the Big Apple that landed differently in a post-9/11 world.
2. The Aviator
This 2004 biopic is a lavish evocation of America between the wars, and fully deserved the five Academy Awards it received. Leonardo DiCaprio is effortless as the legendary filmmaker and aviation pioneer Howard Hughes, whose obsession with getting his war epic Hell’s Angels into cinemas results in massive budget overruns, a lot of ruffled feathers in Hollywood – and a massive box office hit. Before long, Hughes has drawn the attention of Katherine Hepburn (Cate Blanchett); but the compulsions for which he became infamous were by then already beginning to take their toll, and much of the second half is devoted to an exploration of his declining mental health, all set against the backdrop of his quest to build the world’s biggest plane, the Spruce Goose, and prove its flying capabilities. Look out for pitch-perfect supporting turns from Ian Holm, Alan Alda, and Brent Spiner.
1. Goodfellas
Scorsese was overlooked for the Academy Award for Best Director for his impeccable 1990 gangster epic, which relates the rise and fall of Henry Hill and the Mafia mob to which he attaches himself in 1950s New York. Covering a span of 25 years, Goodfellas depicts in lurid fashion both the glamor and grunginess of gangster life, and benefits from career-defining performances from Ray Liotta as Hill, Robert De Niro as Jimmy the Gent, Joe Pesci as Tommy, and Paul Sorvino as Paulie, the Mafia high-up they work for. From Henry’s rapid rise through the ranks to his romancing of his soon-to-be-complicit wife Karen (played first with giddiness and then with bitterness by Lorraine Bracco), Goodfellas shows Scorsese in the form of his life. Shots that might come across as tricksy in the hands of lesser directors, such as the glacially slow dolly zoom in the diner during the final act, or the famous single-camera scene in which Hill leads Karen into a nightclub through the kitchen, are pulled off with adroitness. It’s no wonder that, a third of century after its release, Goodfellas continues to top critics’ list as one of the greatest movies of all-time, and spawned countless imitators.
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